zebablah:

Hip-hop legend. 

notime4yourshit:

Why WOULDN’T Whitney, Missy, Mary & Nicki be considered rock artists? What makes them any less applicable of that particular label than Madonna or Tori Amos or Lady GaGa?

Why are Black Women routinely relegated to singular genres of music when their talent, success and influence far exceeds the restrictive genre boxes they’re all too often forced into?

The very point of the original post was that the white male instituted definition of rock was antiquated, obsolete and exclusionary. Which then begs the question of how one defines rock music. If we define it as aping white folks then no, Whitney/Missy/Mary/Nicki aren’t rock musicians. 

However if we’re defining rock in terms of talent, success & overall influence then they definitely are rock stars. Which isn’t to exclude them from ALSO being considered r&b, soul or hip hop artists, but in addition to. Because really, isn’t that usually how rock music success is often measured?

The Beatles, arguably, weren’t rock musicians yet if you asked most anyone, of any color, they’d be at the top of a lot of people’s all time greatest list.

But then only we could invent something and subsequently exclude ourselves from it.

And yes Santigold is most definitely rock.

Okay but while you are defining rock in terms of talent, influence, and success…I don’t.  If we’re talking about something like…”rock star status” then yeah, I get why those women are included and why you’re referring to them as rock stars.  In that case, I’d agree, but also think it is problematic that talent and success have to be measured in terms of “rock” in the first place when all of those qualities can be found in other genres…which I guess comes back to the fact that a) I suppose there is a miscommunication between your definition of a “rock star” and my definition of “someone who performs rock music” and b) I usually identify “rock” by sound, not success.  What “sounds” like rock is obviously subjective as fuck, but that is the only way I can explain my differentiation.  And I don’t think that how I define that sound has a basis in whiteness but I’m not going to deny that whiteness has apparently laid claim to the genre to the point where people act like The Beatles or Elvis created rock music (bullshit) and that rock is just a genre that some select “tokens” like Hendrix managed to break into…as though rock hasn’t been a huge part of black music in America for decades.  It’s maddening.

Anyway, because of what I was saying earlier about sound and all, I wouldn’t exactly throw Lady Gaga or Madonna in the category of rock above all else either.  In terms of how you’re defining it (in terms of success and influence), Lady Gaga is rock, Chaka is rock, hell even Britney Spears is rock.  That just isn’t the same, to me, as an artist who creates rock music.  

Black women are often thrown en masse into the R&B  label for bullshit reasons, I agree 100%.  And many musicians (black women included contrary to popular belief and what I may have unintentionally implied in my post) can transcend various genres and aren’t just placed in a singular genre.  However, if I’m talking about the primary sound that is presenting itself in an artists’ body of work, Nicki Minaj is not my idea of a woman in rock music.  And neither, for that matter, is Madonna.

IDK if I’m making sense.  I get what you’re saying and agree if I’m using your definition of a rock artist.  But rock just isn’t defined that way for me.

notime4yourshit:

I’m so tired of people ignoring the long history of Black female musicians who were ROCK artists despite not fitting flouting white folks obsolete ass notion of what they envision rock to be.

No matter what white folks will brainwash you to believe you might think, Black Female Rock Musicians DO NOT begin and end with Tina Turner.

Millie Jackson? Rock Star.

Sarah, Patti & Nona? Rock Stars.

Pointer Sisters? Rock Stars.

Joyce Kennedy. Rock Star.

Betty Davis? Rock Star

Rosetta Tharpe? Rock Star.

Barbara Lynn? Rock Star.

Aretha Franklin? Rock Star.

Gladys Knight? Rock Star.

Valerie Simpson? Rock Star.

Grace Jones? Rock Star.

Martha Reeves? Rock Star.

Diana Ross? Rock Star.

Dionne Warwick? Rock Star.

Whitney Houston? Rock Star.

Big Mama Thorton? Rock Star.

Natalie Cole? Rock Star.

Bessie Smith? Rock Star.

Chaka Khan? Rock Star.

Irma Thomas? Rock Star.

Laura Lee? Rock Star.

Ma Rainey? Rock Star.

Poly Styrene? Rock Star.

Celia Cruz? Rock Star.

Janet Jackson? Rock Star.

Erykah Badu? Rock Star.

Shea Rose? Rock Star.

Joi Gilliam? Rock Star.

Etta James? Rock Star.

Rachelle Ferrell? Rock Star.

Adriana Evans? Rock Star.

Shirley Caesar? Rock Star.

La Lupe? Rock Star.

Sharon Jones? Rock Star.

Me’Shell N’degeocello? Rock Star.

Koko Taylor? Rock Star.

Mahalia Jackson? Rock Star.

Res? Rock Star.

Ledisi? Rock Star.

Joan Armatrading? Rock Star.

Mary J. Blige? Rock Star.

Dionne Farris? Rock Star.

Missy Elliott? Rock Star.

Nicki Minaj? Rock Star.

While this list has plenty of amazing, larger than life black female musicians, if we’re talking about black women who are musicians and performers in the rock genre? There are plenty of people on this list that I don’t really consider rock artists, honestly.

Yeah, it’s a fucking TRAVESTY and flat out gross that someone like Grace Jones isn’t acknowledged as a fucking awesome woman in rock music (omg she’s black and alternative omg confuuuuusing amirite??????? smh).  Poly Styrene?  Fuck yeah, her too. But when I see Whitney Houston, Mary J, Missy, and Nicki on this list of black women who are rock musicians?  Erm, I’m gonna have to disagree, personally.  Like, I love Missy E but I would not classify her as a black female rock artist at all.  Same with Whitney Houston, who is the definition of a pop artist in my eyes, but rock? Not so much.

There is a fucked up history of black exclusion from rock subcultures, scenes, and even claiming the genre to describe their style of music.  I mean, black people fucking CREATED rock music, and this shit is going on.  It’s ridiculous.  So yeah, I definitely agree with the heart of this post, but that list has plenty of awesome black women in music who I doubt would even call the majority of their own music “rock music”.  Just about all of these women are fucking A+ in their respective genres and hell, they deffo could have been influenced by rock or influenced other rock musicians.  But if one were to ask me to name a black woman in rock rn Nicki, for example, wouldn’t be on that list.  I almost feel like that directly contradicts the importance of acknowledging black women in rock and fighting erasure.  As a black chick who loves rock music like crazy, erasure of black people in rock (bands AND fans) by white assholes who think they can singlehandedly lay claim to the genre is really important to me.  But I wouldn’t use some of the women on this list to drop some knowledge on ignorant mother fuckers.  Not because white people have brainwashed me into thinking they aren’t rock musicians, but because some of them just straight up don’t perform rock music.

(Also where is Santigold?  If there is any example of a popular, contemporary black woman in rock rn I would definitely add her to the list).